The Art of Effective Dialog -- In Progress...

WARNING...this is a LONG ONE Folks!

The following is a real time example as to why “forums” don’t work as effective communicative devices. Look at the variation in subject matter, the blaming, missing the point(s), accusations, rudeness, and just the overall disregard for actually “hearing” one another.

I’m guilty of it as well, and so I hope by posting this and allowing each of us responsible for writing our part opens the eyes of all us, but most importantly substantiates why a face-to-face meeting is going to be critical in bringing about any resolve to the issues facing Plainfield Public Schools.

Note: I edited some of the postings, pulling out the pieces that were most poignant and/or applicable. Also note the highlight indicates a reply to a specific posting; it ends at the original post and begins at the reply. Please feel free to track the exact verbiage on the NJForum site.

And so it began… (As you read this series of exchanges ask yourself -- Where is the authentic and honest dialog? Why are we so hell bent on NOT cooperating with one another?)

4099.1. Clubs back in the day by tchr4life, 12/25/10 1:39 PM
…The fact that we have so few activities has truly hurt the children. The BOE should rethink what they have done at the middle schools and high school, return to the 5 period day, and listen to the teachers and their thoughts on activities. But, promises have already been broken.

4099.1.1. Do Tell...by rasrahmataz, 12/25/10 9:53 PM
What promiseshave been broken? I'd really like to hear about that. When I went to school there were 8 periods so what would 5 do exactly. I'm not tracking with your recommendation; please educate me. You and others have said repeatedly that 'we' should listen to the teachers. I have yet to be invited to a pow wow session to listen to teachers. How exactly should that happen? Should the Board invite the teachers? I don't think that would be legal as such. However, the teachers could certainly invite some Board members (not all --no more than 4 at a time -- otherwise it's a whole legal matter, but you can stagger the invites). Come on now. I'm not here to play around for 3 years. You want to do something? You want to make some changes. You've got my email and phone number. Never can it be said that I was not willing to meet and discuss anything. But again -- I have yet to be invited. When you are ready...I'm ready.

4099.1.1.1. Rasrahmataz ... Promises broken ???by tchr4life, 12/26/10 12:13 PM

Dear Rasrahmataz…Teachers at PHS and the middle schools are exhausted ... what school system around here has teachers teaching 6 classes (and the salary scale did not show any increase).

why so hostile?? by udhomeowner, 12/26/10 8:11 PM

this confrontational tone the BOE has with the teachers in this district is getting old

4099.1.1.2.1. You Read It Wrong...by rasrahmataz, 12/26/10 11:28 PM It's not (I'm not) hostile at all. I'm reaching out asking for time at the table to discuss what is going wrong. This forum doesn't allow for conversation it is simply a bunch of statements that obviously can be misconstrued as you have mine. I have the highest regard for teachers -- who teach! LOVE them to pieces!

What is getting tired is running in circles. I reached out that's all I can do, hopefully someone will call me...

4100. Promises broken? by dr-emc2, 12/26/10 1:22 PM

This is a major reason we are unable to move forward. Honestly, why does every issue always end with a simplistic response like "who teaches six periods?" ......Really it has nothing to do with the amount of periods and all to do with the amount of time spent with the students. The fact of he matter is that the word compromise does not exist in PPS and the students and the families of Plainfield are the ones who pay the price. Not the teachers or administrators, most of whom live in other cities, towns, and townships (outside the city limits)..... only the students and the families of Plainfield. How much money is enough? Are we paying attention to what is happening in our nation? People are losing jobs and the government is dealing with a financial catastrophe that has yet to be contained. It is much too easy to play the blame game and quite reckless when you look at the bigger picture. However, we do not do that in Plainfield...what we do is hurl accusations and innuendo without ever collaborating. The offer has been made countless times....in fact, today an opportunity was provided......lets see what happens.......Invective rhetoric or authentic collaboration?

4102. Okay, it's my turn!by swbat, 12/26/10 7:12 PM

Do you mean there are board members who don't know what's going on? At least one of them reads this forum but doesn't she know that she has an open invitation to visit all of the schools besides PAAAS? Herb Green used to visit all of the time. So did Cox. Rasheed practically had an office in the high school. Do you want the truth? Well, maybe you can't handle the truth!

4105. SWBAT--Let's be clear dear lady...by rasrahmataz, 12/26/10 11:23 PM

I'm sorry -- did I intimate that I didn't know what was going on? Or...did I ask to be invited to the table with teachers to have a more 'grown up' conversation and find out what can work? I do believe it was the latter. You obviously don't know me at all otherwise you would know I've been to the schools, but let's be real...showing up doesn't mean YOU know what is going on. In fact you can expect that they put THEIR BEST game face on! I have a DAY JOB...so I'm not available to survey the schools daily. I do what I can, where I can as often as I can and I won't apologize for it.

I also notice that you dog PEA, students and parents often but there's one group you leave out repeatedly. Hmmm, I wonder why that would be? I'm not a formal educator so I don't know Block schedules vs. traditional or 6 periods vs. 5, but what I do know is that our students are not reaching their maximum educational abilities and that is evidenced by standardize test scores as well as the need for remedial classes for our entering college freshman.

As I said over and over again --EVERYONE-- is to blame and yes STUDENTS WILL BE ABLE TO but AREN't YET -- that means you! And further what I know is that my part as a parent is being met as evidenced by my child's test scores, her respect for adults and peers and her compassion for people. And lastly, my commitment to this community is unwavering as evidenced by my willingness to serve on the BOE, PTO, and many other civic organizations that are focused on helping the children in this community.

AS always I stand willing to assist but that would mean you'd have to show your face and call it a hunch -- you'll hide behind some need to remain faceless so as to remain unaccountable. Go Figure.

4105.1. man!! first Christie......by udhomeowner, 12/27/10 8:32 PM

now our newly appointed BOE members are killin' teachers. This is a tough tough town to teach in, thank goodness for most of the kids! Ras, why do you dislike teachers so much??!!

4105.1.1. I don't!by rasrahmataz, 12/27/10 9:20 PM

Those that do what they need to do have my full support!!!

4111. Just ask! by downwithit, 12/27/10 8:11 PM

If the board members who read this forum want an invitation to speak to the teachers, you don't have to ask. If you're concerned about the problems within the district, I have to wonder why it has taken you so long to ask the teachers. From your post (4105) I can only deduct that you really don't know what is going on from the teachers' point of view. You admitted that you don't know about block scheduling or the 5 or 6 period teachers' schedules. You also admitted that showing up doesn't mean you know what's going on but you have shown up in the schools.

So if you haven't talked to the teachers, or spent much time in the schools on what evidence are you basing your votes? Someone has to be giving you advice about your votes. If you have not approached the teachers, how is what you're doing anything different from what your predecessors did? They never did their homework and simply rubber stamped the superintendent's wishes.

You seem to know the problems. Why has it taken you so long to ask about them? Yes, there are problems and we all have to be a part of the solution, but there has to be an acknowledgment that there are problems first. Without hearing from the teachers, you are cutting off a valuable resource and a source of answers.

You said that SWBAT did not dog the teachers. That's true. Too many others have heaped the problems on the teachers already. Teachers are being "dogged" by parents, BOE, principals, vice principals, administrators, students and even the governor. When the teachers "bark", they are usually chastised or muzzled. To their credit, they haven't bitten anyone even though they are being provoked and put down. You expect your students to listen to their teachers, why then don't you listen to us?

As a teacher, I really take offense to your use of the word "dog" when referring to the teachers. (You see I have to interject here -- where in the word did this come from. I didn't refer to anyone as a dog let alone a teacher. See that's what I'm talking about...where's the authentic dialog.) I went with the metaphor only because you decided to use it when you replied to the teacher in 4105.

So, I'll just ask. When and where can the teachers meet with you and your team? In the meantime, ask your other elected representatives to do their homework also.

4111.1. Huh? Just Ask what? I have been asking for years!!!by rasrahmataz, 12/27/10 9:18 PM

It hasn't taken me long. I'm available. Email me, my email is posted in the district address book. Anyone "inside" who has contacted me will tell you I'm true to my word. I'm ready. I'm available after 5 for every day of the week. Will do a Saturday even to get the conversation going.

llame me, por favor.

4112. The problem is everyone else.......by dr-emc2, 12/28/10 7:25 AM

rasrahmataz..keep up the fight....the problem is that discussion requires suggestions and solutions. The post which you responded reflects the tenor of the discussion. It is always adverserial...."Too many others have heaped the problems on the teachers already. Teachers are being "dogged" by parents, BOE, principals, vice principals, administrators, students and even the governor." Whenever anyone questions our "mission" educators do not reflect for a moment instead we join in the "blame game"....it is everyone else. Regardless of all of the many opportunities you have extended to us to meet it is much easier to blame anyone else. If we apply logic to this discussion it is easy to see that the end result of the PPS dysfunction is that our children are trapped in an educational maelstrom. I would love to see a research based solution offered along with the complaint................just to say 6 periods is wrong...is not enough.. explain why is it wrong (with data) If the length of the teaching day is a major problem ......you are going to have a difficult time in the future...because all research data indicates an extended day is one solution of many that will assist students in underperforming schools. I hope we are paying attention to national education debate because this is just the beginning..In one post someone mentioned that teachers are forced to teach 6 periods with 3 preps the person knows that the statement is not factual..Why is it in Plainfield we find solace in rhetorical ping pong?

4112.1. Indeed! by rasrahmataz, 12/28/10 10:09 AM

When I was a PTO member, and on the PEP Board I reached out constantly and was always told that teachers are fearful of retaliation. All I keep thinking was why? From or by Whom? They have one of the strongest unions in the WORLD. They have tenure. What retaliation? And because they wouldn't show up to talk I had and still have no answers.

So I said OK I'll join the Board of Education. I'll give them a liaison to the Board. And I’m not just someone who will just listen, but I’ll help get us where “we” are trying to go. They supported my election for heaven sakes. And now, still no dialog. Why?

4113. Now we're talkin'!by offshore, 12/28/10 8:51 AM

It's taken a long time, but from some of the previous posts, people are talking and yes, listening. I think everyone wants to start some kind of conversation but the right venue to share conversation is still an issue.

…

Teachers are afraid to make public comments because they are fearful of retribution and so they choose to remain anonymous. If someone wants to know what problems face our students and our schools, please ask the teachers. You'd be surprised at just how much they do know about our community. If you want solid answers to some of the issues which our students encounter, ask the teachers. I'm glad we're talking but I also remember when we began talking before and when the community and schools had more of a voice in decision making within each school. Does anyone remember LINCC? Do we still have a student representative to the board of education? These are things we should be doing and not just musing about.

4114. In Answer...by rasrahmataz, 12/28/10 10:02 AM

The Board has two student liaisons. LINC formation was left up to the bldg administrators. Why? Don't know. Pre- me on the BOE.

As for finally talking...that's just it-- I don't consider 'this' real talking. I have no real opportunity to ask questions and then when I do in this venue someone chimes in "oh you there Board Member don't know what's going on, how could that be, where have you been, why aren't you in the schools etc..."

I'm here ready and willing to meet and dialog. If ever there was an opportunity to have your voices heard before someone who is"listening" -- NOW is it. But it will require mutual listening and dialog not just typing on a forum. It is a matter of effectiveness; I need to be given the opportunity to ask questions for clarity, understand YOU, IT and US, and WE need to reach a mutual understanding of the issues and resolutions. That can only be achieved through a heart-to-heart, face-to-face conversation.

I have no power as the BOE body, but I have myself and speak for myself in this regard. I will meet with anyone willing to sit down and discuss what is working, what is not and why not. Everyone doesn't have to show up, if you are worried about retaliation, there are some vocal teachers -- send them as representatives. Send your list of issues through them or someone who is well versed in them to discuss and answer questions about them. The point is lets get to the table and hash this out.

I'm going to end my discussion "on here" about this as I have put it out there at least 3 times in two days for those that are interested in talking with me they are welcomed to reach out to me. I can't do anything more at this point.

...And so it went!

Forget about the danger of the telephone game, this is "in print" dialog and we've still managed to miss each other's points, put forth wrong and outright erroneous information. We repeatedly overlook the olive branches, and instead replace it with embittered, entrenched psychobabble. How will we ever get to where we need to be if we can't even be honest about what is going on?

And that's why I PRAY without ceasing!